Who do you think is the superior Pilot? The lighting count or The red Comet?
Right now i'm personally undecided?

Char by far.

i'd have to agree, char it is

Char

How did you guys get to that conclusin cause i've seen Mobile suit gundam. i've also seen Gundam Wing and i seen Char's counter attack and Endless Waltz. And i cant seem to tell who is superior they are both amazing!!!

Char.... He can pwn MS w/o abusing his newtype powers...
and personality-wise, he's a very interesting anti-hero/or villain.

So is Zechs right? I mean he took down 01 with a leo? and he mastered tallgeese without newtype powers. But Char on the other hand has his newtype powers and can really kick ass without it i mean he totales RX-78.

I mean Zechs Mobile suits look superior to chars but char has his newtype powers? The both have similar stories and the mask.

Nope... for those of you who don't know.... char is more of a mentor in Zeta to Camille... He's also a Constant of Gundam... He at least is a fully different character in MSG, Zeta and Chars Counter Attack

I couldn't really tell you because I've only seen wing. Zechs is my fav out of all.

But Zechs is a changes during the series and in endless waltz. I just saw an episode where zechs took on 50 aries and 20 cancer.

I said I'd make my comeback into the G-Forums and here it is.

Char is by far the better pilot Kuwabara. Why I say this has to deal with the following reasons:

1) Char has more battle experience then Zechs does. Char has foughten in, if I remember correctly, three military conflicts (One Year War, Grypp's Conflict, 2nd Neo-Zeon War). This alone gives him more of an edge in battle and by far in battle instincts and knowledge.

2) Zechs is a Char wannabe and he always will be. You have to remember Char is the original Tragic Hero/Anti-Hero in the mask. Every character in Gundam to come after him to wear a mask was modeled off his personality thus making Char superiour. Char is somewhat of the Father of the modern day masked figure in the Gundam universe and that says alot seeing as how our more recent masked figure (from SEED, name escapes me) is a let down to this legacy.

3) In terms of piloted suits Char has the better of the deals (you have to remember I'm talking in terms of power and piloting skill here). I'd be lieing if I said Zechs had no skill in combat because as we all know Zechs is by far one of the best characters to come of the AC timeline (in my opinion he is the best) but sadly he didn't have the trials and trivilations that Char had to live thru. For one it doesn't matter that Zechs suit is more powerful cause thats all its got going for it. Having power doesn't equal having good combat skills. Char on the other hand had to work with what he was given until he was able to acquire better suits throughout MSG, Zeta, and Char's counterattack. Each of these suits, in their own way, strengthened Char's already known prowess in MS combat and his skills. Zechs had nothing like this. Though he is known for his MS skills he was basically given everything on a silver platter due to this. As I said Char had to acquire things thru his own means, Zechs was given his stuff.

4) Char is more realistic and has more realistic notions. Char is somebody people can connect with, Zechs isn't. Zechs has this whole almighty feel to him and thus makes him hard to connect with. Sure we feel bad for him when he loses his family (when we find out that is), sure we suffer with him when he goes off the deep end toward the end in the battle with Heero, but that doesn't make him the all around better person here. Char on the other hand has suffered thru things most people in life have (except MS combat and the like) and in this alone hes more of a pilot you can connect with.

5) Newtype powers. Yes I know its sad we must put this as a reason but its true that this does give him an edge in battle. Though he rarely uses them to their full extent in battle (unless that battle is with Amuro) he is given the edge in battle that Zechs is lacking. Yes I know the Epyon is equipped with the Zero System but this is also Zechs limitation. Where the Zero system reads and predicts combat movement and actions based on programming a newtype does so on instincts with no use of a computer system (that is until Bits and the Psycommu system are introduced). This alone gives Char the faster reaction times needed and the better judgement in combat. Sure the Zero system is nice but remember its limited to programming and the limitations of its pilot. A newtype doesn't have these limitations unless not properly trained (which Char is properly trained to use his powers).

Those are my five reasons as to why Char is the better pilot. Of course two of them make him out to be a somewhat better person (which this topic wasn't made to do) but they are also deciding factors on why most people choose to say one pilot is better then another. Remember my friends my own reasons and my own opinion but I am willing to discuss and of my five reasons in a debate/discussion.

yah id have to agree with him for once char is the better pilot, but i personaly think zechs is one pimpen dude...

Well when he puts it that way what else is their to say Char is Superior.

2) Zechs is a Char wannabe and he always will be. You have to remember Char is the original Tragic Hero/Anti-Hero in the mask. Every character in Gundam to come after him to wear a mask was modeled off his personality thus making Char superiour. Char is somewhat of the Father of the modern day masked figure in the Gundam universe and that says alot seeing as how our more recent masked figure (from SEED, name escapes me) is a let down to this legacy.

If it's Destiny, then it's Neo ^_^.

Apart from that, great mighty comeback uber informative post *gets into a Gouff and is all set to battle Strider-Char ^_^*

Char becasue he was the first and Zechs is too much of a pretty boy.

zechs gets the vote, hes hotter, cooler, and char is just eh too young

zechs is cooler

Char young? Umm Char is actually much older then Zechs is. In the first Gundam series he might have been the same age as Zechs but he is older then Zechs.

To think looks has a thing in determining the better pilot. I thought it was all about skill and knowledge. Guess I was wrong. Better learn the new found judgement techniques of the new found Gundam fans.

whatever you say homie G
i guess im just more serious about other things

I have to go with Char, The Red Comet just cause Mobil suit gundam is what got me into the gundam and Char is just freakin cooler.......

Gudam Wing is what got me into Gundam because of Zechs and Heero beef but then Char and Amuro had a similar beef.

Its all about the original man. Char and Amuro
Char the best! I mean just look at the guy he has a pimpin red Zaku! how freakin cool is that!?

Gudam Wing is what got me into Gundam because of Zechs and Heero beef but then Char and Amuro had a similar beef.

Sadly Kuwa GW is what got almost everyone here into Gundam (besides the few who had seen other Gundam series previously (myself included)). Gotta remember Zechs is based off of Char so that basically means his beef with Heero is based off of Char's little problem with Amuro (gotta love how GW has so many things based from the original Gundam, actually no you don't its just sad).

I agree...........the original is what got me into it.....hells yeah.......

My favorite thing about it is the Arc Angel

Zakus............kick ass man........Char rulz Zech sucks ass....end o' story

By far and long, it's Zecks...he's so much better...he can put up with screaming sisters and not kill them, a stalking lutenit(sp?), mobilize a great Gundam, AND not fall for the hottest person on the show...What could be better? i mean, his skills are amazing...heh...at least i think so...

have you even seen The Red Comet in action?

I've seen both they are basically almost the same to me.

Well thats a given. Zechs is basically GW's version of Char (remember Zech's personality and model are based off of the Red Comet himself). Basically more so then other masked characters Zechs is almost a clone of Char

This is very true Strider.......Zechs= Char's clone........

With longer hair.

Char had more air time... + More codenames...

Skill-wise Char definitely wins hands down. Now if we want to go into the looks department, then Zechs would have to win. Of course, that is only because Wing had some exceptionally well drawn characters. Better than SEED, and that is the newest series!

The only reason the Wing characters are supposedly "well-drawn" is because it was the first Gundam series made to try and bring in a female audience, hence the pretty boy pilots.

None the less Char still had his flock of women after him (watch Char's Counterattack and Zeta Gundam, plenty of women are after him).

Gundam wing was made to be a shonen anime

But it never became Shonnen. Not all the Chars. Were Pretty Boys. tuberov being one.XD

As I said it was effectively a series made to bring a female audience (hence the five Gundam pilots and Zechs).

Is that an Assumption? Or a Proven Fact?

A proven fact. One of the creators of GW was actually quoted saying this. Since Gundam, from the beginning, was aimed at young boys to teenagers they thought it was about time to appeal to a broader audience. Hence the creation of GW. They thought having pretty boys piloting mechs would draw in a large female crowd. By the measure of success GW had in Japan and the US I'm guessing it worked.

Oh okay. The "Pretty Boys." Pwn most. That is a fact.

Oh okay. The "Pretty Boys." Pwn most...

... GRUNTS...

Oh okay. The "Pretty Boys." Pwn most. That is a fact.

Whatever you're mind wants to tell you Kuwa. Anybody could have pwned in their universe given if they had the Gundams these Pretty Boys were using.

Dude the Gundams they were given Virtual sucked. All they had were Armor and weapons nothing more. I bet you if the F91 took on Sandrock it would pwn it. Or if the nu gundam took on Deathscythe it could Pwn in or any other of the other originals. Plus look all they fought were Leo's and Arie's the Rx-78 could take out Leo's.

As I said, let your mind believe what it wants. I won't stop it and you won't convince me. Next point.

Supporting^^

Since when did the OZ boys (xept for zechs/treize) became good in piloting? they were "props" to make the GW guys look good...

The GW boys were only on top because oz soldiers/ every other grunty got stormtrooper aim (referring to ep4,5,6 of sw)...

OZ weren't smart enough to upgrade their MS...

It all happened in one year. OZ did step up with the Mobile Dolls.

It's Char all the way.

So it seems Char is in the lead. Only if GW had more spin offs where You could see Zechs more.

Still wouldn't help him Kuwa. Many of us like the "original" concept better then the "clone"

Me I like original better than clone cause clones suck ass..........

In The Basic Concept Zechs is a Clone. Only in the Role but Zechs and Char don't have the same Emotions and when it comes down to it They are quite different.

True but Zechs isn't as complex of a character as Char. Zechs is a shell compared to Char.

Chars Complexity had time to grow Spanning from Mobile Suit Gundam unto Zeta Gundam. While Zechs was only in Gundam Wing and they didnt have a spin off.

Which most Gundam fans take as a good thing. Char's complexity does not come from the fact that he's in three series, he was far more complex in MSG then Zechs could have even hoped to be. It's a fact, something you can dispute all you want but most will not agree. Zechs just wasn't an interesting character and he just wasn't that interesting as a Char clone. Sadly even if spin-offs were made Zechs just doesn't have anything left to spill out. He's just a shell like I said. Throw a semi-interesting past behind him and you have a shell thats somewhat complex. Zechs just won't win in a popularity contest or a personality contest when placed against Char. Put him against Rau from SEED and Zechs might win but Char it's just not possible.

Rau? Rau was nothing but a 3rd generation Char wonna be. The only was the mask was better than the ohter masks. Zechs is not really Complex. He said iot himself he is just a soldier nothing more. Him and Char did have a similar Stories trying to get revenge for a dead father and trying to realize his dreams in there own method.

Xept that Rau Died... A more Suitable Char Clone from the SEED series is Neo Leonorke or should I say Mwu La Flaga. Rau is not as good as Char can get. I'll Admit that. But the Char persona of the Cosmic Era is not even on a Mask. He's even more cunning than Rau himself. Gilbert Dullindal is not only the Char persona of the Cosmic Era, but he also has the same VA as Char.

So as Zechs... another char wannabe.... Kreuze wasn't a char wannabe... he's just a psycho... (WATCH GSep45-50) I agree that dullindal is a char w/o mask... He sure sounds like char... He is verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry sinister... he doesn't pilot something, though....

Sinister? I dont think Char was sinister but hey i only seen a few eps of MSG and fell asleep in the begining of CCA. But Sinister is not a Trait Zechs has maybe Trieze but not Zechs or Char(maybe)

By what means is Char sinister? The man doesn't have a sinister bone in his body. Char was a schemer yes, but not a sinister one. The man did what he did for various reasons (to avenge his father's death, knock out the Titans and there tyranical rule for the betterment of Spacenoids and Newtypes, and tried his hardest in CCA to realize his dream of moving all humans into space so they could evolve). Of course some of his methods weren't the greatest or morally correct but he was in no way sinister.

Edit: Edited for grammar, god I can't type today.

That is what i was trying to say Zechs and Char were not sinister but i don't know so much about Char.

Whoops... hehehe, my bad...

I say Char is actually a good antagonist IMO. He not only has points on the Piloting Department, He also has girls around him (Quess,Haman(Help me I can't think of anyone else -strider.))

Char=Babemagnet???
I thought Athrun was the Babemagnet...

I say Char is actually a good antagonist IMO. He not only has points on the Piloting Department, He also has girls around him (Quess,Haman(Help me I can't think of anyone else -strider.))

I don't remember exactly but there is that other chick from Zeta (can't remember her name, she's turns sides halfway thru the show) and then that research institute chick in CCA (again I cannot remember the name). I think thats all the chicks that hung around him.

well Athrun is the CE Quattro, so he has cool wheels, a harem and a leech(Meer)

A proven fact. One of the creators of GW was actually quoted saying this. Since Gundam, from the beginning, was aimed at young boys to teenagers they thought it was about time to appeal to a broader audience. Hence the creation of GW. They thought having pretty boys piloting mechs would draw in a large female crowd. By the measure of success GW had in Japan and the US I'm guessing it worked.

I agree with this analysis. I've always been a Gundam Wing fan,mostly because of the potential romances (1XR is my favorite) and the political issues. Everything I learned about the standards of society I learned from Gundam Wing.

I also understand the Char thing. But aren't all the Gundam characters the same in some respects to the previous versions? 080 had Quatre's voice in it, didn't it? I only know of the characters, I'm terrible at remembering voice actors.

Zechs was cute because he had long hair. . . and that is probably one more reason why I chose him. *dreamy and focused*

Char young? Umm Char is actually much older then Zechs is. In the first Gundam series he might have been the same age as Zechs but he is older then Zechs.

To think looks has a thing in determining the better pilot. I thought it was all about skill and knowledge. Guess I was wrong. Better learn the new found judgement techniques of the new found Gundam fans.

Strider, when are you going to learn that pretty characters never die. :p

Very true, they're worshipped forever in the minds of those who can't help it. Love this thread.

Strider, when are you going to learn that pretty characters never die. :p

It works the opposite way in Gundam series though GRX (except for those damn AU series like GW and SEED, they never seem to die. Damn fans). Though I suppose I'll never learn.

Pretty boys are too pretty to die :meh: Except when in the hands of the kill em all Tomino-_-;

Its all bout Char he has mad Mobil Suit piloting skills and can take on a gundam with a friggin Zaku you have to be pretty damn good to be able to pull that shit off. And you have to be god to get a pimp name like the Red Comet I mean that is total coolness... and Char owns all damn it! Screw Zechs the only reason he is around is cause he is loved for looks! But looks mean nothing if you can't pilot a mech well in combat so hah! if it came down to a fight between Char and Zechs, Char would fucking pwn Zechs. Zechs has nothing on Char!

Probably, but what is Char's motive compared to Zechs'? I'm not too familiar with the other Gundam series because I sorta girl-out when I see Gundam Wing. &#

Its all bout Char he has mad Mobil Suit piloting skills and can take on a gundam with a friggin Zaku you have to be pretty damn good to be able to pull that shit off. And you have to be god to get a pimp name like the Red Comet I mean that is total coolness... and Char owns all damn it! Screw Zechs the only reason he is around is cause he is loved for looks! But looks mean nothing if you can't pilot a mech well in combat so hah! if it came down to a fight between Char and Zechs, Char would fucking pwn Zechs. Zechs has nothing on Char!

Not the exact words or context that I would've used but he's got the point. Char is fundamenatally better then Zechs. Not just combat wise either (I've already covered the points, look them up in the post).

Char's motive is much greater then Zechs'. While Zechs is looking out for himself Char is looking at the bigger picture. Originally he was out for revenge against the Zabi family for what they had done (family wise, am not going to give a history lesson). Then it switched to protecting the colonies from the corruption that was the Titans in Zeta Gundam. From there, after he disappeared at the end of Zeta Gundam, his motives and ideal changed as to furthering the evolution of mankind by making all of earth's people move to space by making the earth unfit to live on. He was looking at mankinds bright future even if it was by means that most people would not use.

His motive's change and his goals become more oriented. Zechs shows none of this at all. As I've stated Zechs is nothing but a shell thrown into a show for his looks. I'm quite sure thats all that was planned for him and the others in GW (as I did state GW was created to bring in a female fanbase, a good idea but one that pissed quite a few Gundam fans off. It was a good show, I'll admit to that but it lacked anything dealing with good character development or plot).

This fundamental flaw in Zechs makes him inferior to Char in every way. The only thing Zechs actually inherited from Char was his combat skill (yes, Zechs was a good pilot. Alot of it had to do with the suits he piloted but there was skill there).

Again all opinions as is everything in this topic.

The only problem I have with this idea is that Zechs was originally climbing in the ranks in order to avenge his family's death. The actual fanbase is a big point, but he was also the guy who wanted to get something done in order to end the wars in the Colonies--that is, he made the war hurry to a breaking point in order to speed up the process of realization in the eyes of those who were defenseless. They would be the ones who eventually decided they didn't want a society ruled by fighting.

Zechs had forgotten for a while that he also joined the military to protect his sister because he gave her up to a family who could raise her properly in the ways of total Pacifism. The only flaw in his idea is that he couldn't keep himself from seeing his sister, and went against the ideas of his family in order to teach the ESUN a lesson no one would soon forget--that war was pointless. He was prepared to cause mass destruction in order to make the war end.

And then there's his fighting skill. It was there to ensure his rank would go up and that he'd be the only one to have the skills to fight against Heero Yuy in the duration of the series. The best part about GW is the emotion that comes out of it. I could care less than a fanbase, but I like good plotlines. (I can also get overly enthuised about politics. ^_^)

Ah, finally a worthy debater. All valid points you bring up but then again as I said we're all throwing out our opinions (we all know I'm a Char fan till the day I die).

My only problem with Zechs is he's not an original idea, he's a blatant copy and paste of Char. This was one reason why I originally liked his character but after awhile it became to clear that they were failing at making an original character based off of another. The climbing thru the ranks is basically what Char did, to put himself in a place where he could hold more sway and be able to better exact his revenge. About the only original idea was the whole protecting of his sister. Char's sister and himself were seperated so he never knew his sister was alive till they met. About the only fundamental change between Char and Zechs besides looks.

His reckless endangerment to end a war is an exact copy of Char's idea of destroying Earth's environment to futher human evolution. He would go to any means to show humanity that he was in fact right.

His fighting skills were good, subpar compared to Char's. I can only attribute his abilities to keep up with Heero to the excellent suits he was given to pilot. The Tallgeese and Epyon were exceptional suits, only ones who could fight on even grounds with the Gundams of GW (another aspect that I hated of this show, overpowered suits. So unrealistic). Without the Epyon Zechs wouldn't of stood a chance against Heero skills or none. Take this against Char's ability to take on a Gundam in a lowly Zaku. Thats skill (though some of this could be attributed to Amuro's lack of MS combat tactics or how to operate one in the beginning).

I'll admit the emotion in GW is one reason I liked the show. It's one of the few Gundam shows with that much emotion in it (Zeta has the cake here, this show has tones of emotion) and the ability to pull the emotion out of the characters but again it's lacking a good plot and good character development.

I now step down from the podium. I could debate the Char/Zechs topic forever and we'll make no headway due to opinions but I will admit you got me on a few points since my GW knowledge is lacking (I haven't done any research or seen the show in about 4 years now).

Yeah, same here. Love the debate, though, kept my mind moving. Heero's probably better all around. 8) Char sounds like a real trooper, though, using a "lowly Zaku." I've always loved the fighting scenes with the lower mecha, probably because the more experienced pilots could always do more with their mech than the expendable "IT'S A GUNDAM!" soldiers.

On a personal note, aren't they just asking for it when they scream that??

Usually cause they're the first ones dead after yelling it which always made me laugh and think "Never say its a Gundam, your bound to be dead within seconds afterwards".

Drats the debate is over when I finally make it back. All add my two cents now since I now understand Char better (having seen Zeta, Char's Counter Attack, and some of MSG recently.) Char and Zechs are basically victims of the same past and walked the same path in there early childhood. But Zechs went off and did his own thing that was spurred by different motives than Char's.

Zechs joined the Alliance to get revenge for his family and kingdom. Samething as Char... In episode 9 after he liberated the Sanc kingdom and killed the guy who led the attacks on the Sanc that is when he began to differentiate from Char. He became a purposeless character since then... Zechs gets very little character development and when he finally gets one it's pretty quick. Like when he was fighting Heero in Siberia and OZ came after them he suddenly quickly went all "Glory to all the Colonies." And became a loyal soldier of the colonies after being born and raised on earth. Then became the representator of the Peace craft nation while in space. Later he became the leader of the white fang and the "Anti-Earth Union Group" of Wing, IE: White Fang where he was totally remade into Char again with his "Neo Zeon movement".

Character wise the only thing I liked about Zechs was his rivalry with Treize after he left OZ... Him and Heero was pointless they were basically fighting for nothing... But skills wise Zechs is superb... He is the third if not second best pilot of Wing, because we all know that Treize was number 1. He was able to use the Tallgeese which had weaker armor and weapons than the Gundams and he was able to fend off the Gundams. Not to mention that he was able to handle the intense G's of the mobile suit (after much practice).

Char character wise is much better than Zechs. He was kindy developing slowly but with Quality through MSG-CCA. His skills were not the best Zeon had but he was one of the lengendary ones. And the whole Lah-Lah Sune thing between him and Amuro was the best part of his development.

All in all Zechs and Char are both kick ass... And in the end Zechs earned my liking him by coming back in endless waltz and trying to stop people from doing the dumb shit he was about to do. Char in the end wanted to clear life on earth to preserve the planet which made no sense...

So I still go with Zechs.

When you were debating Strider, I thought that you had already seen Zeta and MSG.

Not to seem like a total jackass or anything but, don't you think you should have watched it first to see Char, so that you could actually tell if Zechs or Char was better, instead of just saying Zechs was better by whatever was on the internet or what you've seen?

*Gets ready to get "told" by someone.*

Dude I think you meant Kuwa on that. I've never said I like Zechs so you might want to edit your post. If that was indeed aimed at me I'll deal with it later.

When you were debating Strider, I thought that you had already seen Zeta and MSG.

Not to seem like a total jackass or anything but, don't you think you should have watched it first to see Char, so that you could actually tell if Zechs or Char was better, instead of just saying Zechs was better by whatever was on the internet or what you've seen?

*Gets ready to get "told" by someone.*

What are you insinuating? That I have never seen Char before? I have watched MSG when they were airing it on CN and I have seen CCA as well before that (though I never stayed awake through the whole thing until recently.) I had a basic understanding of Char in two of the series he was in though I never saw him in the end of those series. He really doesn't develop quickly so in the end of a series he was about the same as he was in the start of it. He develops slowly but with quality so yeah. I knew what I was talking about before.

PS.

*SLAP!!* You were about to make me look bad :meh: X'D

Dude I think you meant Kuwa on that. I've never said I like Zechs so you might want to edit your post. If that was indeed aimed at me I'll deal with it later.
When you were debating Strider, I thought that you had already seen Zeta and MSG.

I meant Kuwabara, because Kuwabara's post was right above mine so I didn't quote or anything.

All add my two cents now since I now understand Char better (having seen Zeta, Char's Counter Attack, and some of MSG recently.)
Because you said "recently" and I thought you never even saw it then, as in when this debate was created.

Haha, I guess being tired does effect my reading abilities. Sorry for misreading it.

:happy: It's all in good fun. I just seen Gundam X and that thing is kick ass.

zomg!
Check out what i bought in my ultimate act of fanboyism

http://www.figures.com/databases/news/cooljt/2/34.jpg

zomg!
Check out what i bought in my ultimate act of fanboyism

http://www.hlj.com/images/ban/ban932915.jpg

Cool you brought a stolen image!!!! X'D

Just kidding.:meh:

fixed :P

You are the ultimate fanboy. Have you seen the Ebay auction for the 1/1 scale F-91 head? If I had the money I would bid on it.

Yeah, I've seen it in person too X'D

Grrrr.....lucky little bastard.

zomg!
Check out what i bought in my ultimate act of fanboyism

http://www.figures.com/databases/news/cooljt/2/34.jpg

Sweet, looks pretty bad ass. ^_^0


F-91, that's my favorite Gundam of all time. I used to have a model of it but the my stupid little brother cruched it with a stupid ass Master Gundam. =_=